Al-Bulugh
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Al-Bulugh
What do the Fuqahaa and 'Ulama say about this? Are there any opinions of permission?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=virjX7t6lHM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=virjX7t6lHM
usmanqamar1- Posts : 21
Join date : 2010-08-29
Re: Al-Bulugh
he might just be a really short guy with a sick voice
ibn munayyar- Posts : 36
Join date : 2010-08-29
Age : 32
Location : Blackburn Shareef
Re: Al-Bulugh
For a congregation of healthy men, it is a condition for the validity of congregational prayer in the Hanafi school that the imam must be a sane, ADULT male that can recite Quran.
Radul-Muhtar Pg 280 VL2 DKI print
AL-Fiqhul Muyassar Pg102 Zam zam publisher print
Al-Hidaayah pg123 Al-Misbah print
Hashiyaht al-Tahtawi pg287 DKI print
Sharhul-Wiqayah Pg176 Al-Misbah print
Some conditions to be a valid follower in congregatonal prayer include: the follower's heel cannot be infront of the imams heel; the follower CANNOT pray a STRONGER prayer than the imam, such as an obligatory(fard) prayer behind an imam praying a sunnah or voluntary(nafl)prayer.
Having said that
Children are not mukallaf, or legally responsible, and so any prayers they do pray are counted as nafl (non-obligatory) prayers even if the child is praying an obligatory(fardh)prayer.
So someone who is praying an obligatory(fardh) prayer cannot follow an imam who is praying nafl/sunnah prayers, so an adult praying fardh/wajib/sunnah muakaddah prayers similarly cannot follow a child whose prayers are all effectively nafl prayers.
According to Imam Shafi(May Allah be pleased with him Aameen)a child can lead an adult in prayer.
(Using Hadeeth No 585 of the Sunan of Abu Dawud as proof numerous authors in their respective ahadith collections have mentioned this hadeeth but because we prayed this particular issue which is known as Salatul-Muftaridh khalfal mutanafil with Mufti Ikramul-Haq saheb so we thought best to use Abu-Dawud lol)
Many answers are given for this Hadeeth such as to make the child their imam was never heard directly from the Prophet (peace be upon him), rather it was by the tribe’s own ijtihad.
(Bazlul-Majhud)
Having said that can an adult praying voluntary(nafl)prayer follow a CHILD imam who is also praying voluntary(nafl)prayer?
In this regard the strongest opinion in the hanafi school is that it is not permitted in any of the prayers, because the nafl prayers of the child are less than those of the adult insofar as the child is under no duty to offer qadha if he nullifies his prayer (See Al-Hidayah pg 123 Al-misbah print)
Adult-Baligh
Child-Not Baligh
A male child becomes mature when he experiences a wet dream or ejaculation.If by the age of 15 lunar years the child hasn't undergone these experiences, then he will be considered legally mature automatically.
So the video will be acting upon the ijtihaad of the Shafiee school of thought if you consider them Shafiee's or acting upon the hadith of Abu Dawud literally or as Shaykh Umar mentioned it could be a very short man
Please remember me in your duas
Khalil Ibn Ilyas Laher
Radul-Muhtar Pg 280 VL2 DKI print
AL-Fiqhul Muyassar Pg102 Zam zam publisher print
Al-Hidaayah pg123 Al-Misbah print
Hashiyaht al-Tahtawi pg287 DKI print
Sharhul-Wiqayah Pg176 Al-Misbah print
Some conditions to be a valid follower in congregatonal prayer include: the follower's heel cannot be infront of the imams heel; the follower CANNOT pray a STRONGER prayer than the imam, such as an obligatory(fard) prayer behind an imam praying a sunnah or voluntary(nafl)prayer.
Having said that
Children are not mukallaf, or legally responsible, and so any prayers they do pray are counted as nafl (non-obligatory) prayers even if the child is praying an obligatory(fardh)prayer.
So someone who is praying an obligatory(fardh) prayer cannot follow an imam who is praying nafl/sunnah prayers, so an adult praying fardh/wajib/sunnah muakaddah prayers similarly cannot follow a child whose prayers are all effectively nafl prayers.
According to Imam Shafi(May Allah be pleased with him Aameen)a child can lead an adult in prayer.
(Using Hadeeth No 585 of the Sunan of Abu Dawud as proof numerous authors in their respective ahadith collections have mentioned this hadeeth but because we prayed this particular issue which is known as Salatul-Muftaridh khalfal mutanafil with Mufti Ikramul-Haq saheb so we thought best to use Abu-Dawud lol)
Many answers are given for this Hadeeth such as to make the child their imam was never heard directly from the Prophet (peace be upon him), rather it was by the tribe’s own ijtihad.
(Bazlul-Majhud)
Having said that can an adult praying voluntary(nafl)prayer follow a CHILD imam who is also praying voluntary(nafl)prayer?
In this regard the strongest opinion in the hanafi school is that it is not permitted in any of the prayers, because the nafl prayers of the child are less than those of the adult insofar as the child is under no duty to offer qadha if he nullifies his prayer (See Al-Hidayah pg 123 Al-misbah print)
Adult-Baligh
Child-Not Baligh
A male child becomes mature when he experiences a wet dream or ejaculation.If by the age of 15 lunar years the child hasn't undergone these experiences, then he will be considered legally mature automatically.
So the video will be acting upon the ijtihaad of the Shafiee school of thought if you consider them Shafiee's or acting upon the hadith of Abu Dawud literally or as Shaykh Umar mentioned it could be a very short man
Please remember me in your duas
Khalil Ibn Ilyas Laher
Last edited by khalillaher on Thu Sep 02, 2010 5:04 pm; edited 2 times in total
khalillaher- Posts : 132
Join date : 2010-08-29
Age : 36
Location : London
Re: Al-Bulugh
i don't think they are following the Shaaf'iee school of thought; this is because the congregation have clearly adopted the "foot-to-foot" opinion, which is contrary to the view of the Shawaafi'....
"According to the Shaafi Math-hab, the gap between the feet should be one hand. It is Makrooh to spread the feet wider than this."
http://www.central-mosque.com/fiqh/detdisfeet.htm
"According to the Shaafi Math-hab, the gap between the feet should be one hand. It is Makrooh to spread the feet wider than this."
http://www.central-mosque.com/fiqh/detdisfeet.htm
ibn munayyar- Posts : 36
Join date : 2010-08-29
Age : 32
Location : Blackburn Shareef
Re: Al-Bulugh
Jazakallah staying on the issue of distance of feet in the hanafi school of thought ahh will leave that for another time in sha Allah.
Please remember me in your duas
Khalil ibn Ilyas Laher
Please remember me in your duas
Khalil ibn Ilyas Laher
khalillaher- Posts : 132
Join date : 2010-08-29
Age : 36
Location : London
Re: Al-Bulugh
Leaving aside the 'ankle' to 'ankle'(and not small toe to small toe) and shoulder to shoulder (in congregation), where does the distance come from for a munfarid? Some bros really go the extra yard when in qiyaam!!
mujahid- Posts : 3
Join date : 2010-09-11
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